[singular9]

If you were watching your knock count with your K-Tuner than you would know. Just a side note I looked a Phearable stage 4 tune dyno results on a stock car and thats such a huge power increase. 340hp and 400lbs torque. compared to the stage 3 which is 280hp and 340b torque. No wonder you guys run that. Huge power difference I was shocked it was so much. So the tune adjusts on its own but you watched the knock count. I know there are a lot of guys pushing those numbers with bigger turbos and no blown head gaskets yet. Your could of had a defect or a weak spot from the factory. keep us posted sucks they are giving you crap for the flex fuel kit.

I have read a lot about the K20C1/C4 platform and as far as I am concerned, even people who use these engines as racecars say you MUST not go over 380lbft at ANY RPM on stock internals and sleeves. 400LBFT at anything bellow 3800 RPM will bend a rod and do other damage. The reason I stayed on Ktuner Stage 2 myself and usually daily drive it on the eco map with factory boost targets is because anything over ktuner stage 2 NEEDS headgaskets, head studs, and most likely, sleeve reinforcement since you are taking the head off anyway. And then if you wanna go past that with any level of reliability (350lbft+) you need rods at the minimum and if you are gonna change rods might as well change pistons, now you are getting into engine swap pricing to be honest, if you account for labor. Now if you don't wanna do any of that and still get 400lbft, they recommend going big turbo and having the turbo spool take longer and hit peak boost at 4k RPM or higher which is where the cranksaft rotation is fast enough to offset any damage that could be done to the rods.

BUT, again, this is just what I have read from people who buy this engine as a crate motor and swap it into their race cars. Its a great SUB 400hp/400lbft motor.

Based on what I learned in college (and its been a long time) I could confidently say that the biggest issue with these small turbo motors is that they are trying to make ALL of their torque from 1500RPM if not lower, which is way more stress. Imagine, the piston speed is low but you are literally FORCING the piston down against the laws of physics. This is where issues occur. So the idea that pushing 400lbft should be limited to higher RPM is valid.

Keep us updated. This seems like it could have been avoided by simply not pushing the engine that far.

NOW, you said you were running 93 octane more often than E85, so you were probably not making that much power, so I agree, the head shouldn't be warped but headgasket failure is super common on pretty much any NON RACE turbo engine in most appliance vehicles. If you dig into the history of headgasket technology, its hasn't improved in at least the last 10 years, because in the end, its just a shim between the head and the block.

 

[dresm23]

I have read a lot about the K20C1/C4 platform and as far as I am concerned, even people who use these engines as racecars say you MUST not go over 380lbft at ANY RPM on stock internals and sleeves. 400LBFT at anything bellow 3800 RPM will bend a rod and do other damage. The reason I stayed on Ktuner Stage 2 myself and usually daily drive it on the eco map with factory boost targets is because anything over ktuner stage 2 NEEDS headgaskets, head studs, and most likely, sleeve reinforcement since you are taking the head off anyway. And then if you wanna go past that with any level of reliability (350lbft+) you need rods at the minimum and if you are gonna change rods might as well change pistons, now you are getting into engine swap pricing to be honest, if you account for labor. Now if you don't wanna do any of that and still get 400lbft, they recommend going big turbo and having the turbo spool take longer and hit peak boost at 4k RPM or higher which is where the cranksaft rotation is fast enough to offset any damage that could be done to the rods.

BUT, again, this is just what I have read from people who buy this engine as a crate motor and swap it into their race cars. Its a great SUB 400hp/400lbft motor.

Based on what I learned in college (and its been a long time) I could confidently say that the biggest issue with these small turbo motors is that they are trying to make ALL of their torque from 1500RPM if not lower, which is way more stress. Imagine, the piston speed is low but you are literally FORCING the piston down against the laws of physics. This is where issues occur. So the idea that pushing 400lbft should be limited to higher RPM is valid.

Keep us updated. This seems like it could have been avoided by simply not pushing the engine that far.

NOW, you said you were running 93 octane more often than E85, so you were probably not making that much power, so I agree, the head shouldn't be warped but headgasket failure is super common on pretty much any NON RACE turbo engine in most appliance vehicles. If you dig into the history of headgasket technology, its hasn't improved in at least the last 10 years, because in the end, its just a shim between the head and the block.

I totally understand. I’m coming from a fully built FA20 and that was a full blown headache. I spent well over 20k just for the engine to fail again. Subarus are far from proven compared to Hondas.
It’s just that there aren’t that many 2.0s that are failing quickly and this isn’t as common with this platform. My car isn’t even FBO for it to push the power that it advertises. There are 10th gens with heavy mods and have not given issues with 100k + miles. I literally just daily the car regularly which is why I haven’t even ran ethanol in so long. It’s not like I’m pushing the car heavy either, the car literally just overheated while I was parked and idling. I maintenance the car literally every 2500 miles. The car isn’t neglected what so ever and has not given even a pinch of an issue since I’ve been running the tune at 1500 miles.

 

[singular9]

I totally understand. I’m coming from a fully built FA20 and that was a full blown headache. I spent well over 20k just for the engine to fail again. Subarus are far from proven compared to Hondas.
It’s just that there aren’t that many 2.0s that are failing quickly and this isn’t as common with this platform. My car isn’t even FBO for it to push the power that it advertises. There are 10th gens with heavy mods and have not given issues with 100k + miles. I literally just daily the car regularly which is why I haven’t even ran ethanol in so long. It’s not like I’m pushing the car heavy either, the car literally just overheated while I was parked and idling. I maintenance the car literally every 2500 miles. The car isn’t neglected what so ever and has not given even a pinch of an issue since I’ve been running the tune at 1500 miles.

Sounds like a lemon to me, I would push like crazy to get it covered, 8 grand is no joke, for that kind of money I could hire a lawyer to get a whole new car.

 

[garebear]

I totally understand. I’m coming from a fully built FA20 and that was a full blown headache. I spent well over 20k just for the engine to fail again. Subarus are far from proven compared to Hondas.
It’s just that there aren’t that many 2.0s that are failing quickly and this isn’t as common with this platform. My car isn’t even FBO for it to push the power that it advertises. There are 10th gens with heavy mods and have not given issues with 100k + miles. I literally just daily the car regularly which is why I haven’t even ran ethanol in so long. It’s not like I’m pushing the car heavy either, the car literally just overheated while I was parked and idling. I maintenance the car literally every 2500 miles. The car isn’t neglected what so ever and has not given even a pinch of an issue since I’ve been running the tune at 1500 miles.

well it sounds primarily like what happened was you ran the car with too low coolant for too long until it overheated enough to blow head gasket/warp the block. you said the temp gauge was completely full after idling on the hill. did you not notice the temp increasing slowly? how did the gauge completely fill up while idling.

 

[dresm23]

well it sounds primarily like what happened was you ran the car with too low coolant for too long until it overheated enough to blow head gasket/warp the block. you said the temp gauge was completely full after idling on the hill. did you not notice the temp increasing slowly? how did the gauge completely fill up while idling.

From what the dealer is telling me, they’re saying that I’m running too high of boost that the head studs allowed coolant to flow through and blow the head gasket.
the car was fine while driving. I’m normally pretty good with checking out all my gauges and fuilds. For the most part I’m always under my hood weekly. I had my car serviced 2 weeks prior at the dealership so idk if they missed something.
It didn’t increase slowly. I was probably parked about 5mins maybe and the gauge just risen so high. I got some coolant, filled it up and it was fine until I parked it at my house and saw it rise again.

 

[singular9]

I mean if its a blown head gasket, that explains the coolant part. You slowly burnt off some of the coolant and the rest simply overheated. Completely possible. The question remains about the supposed "too much boost". PSI is measured at the intake manifold, not the cylinder, so the question is what is the cylinder pressure with X amount of PSI with X amount of ignition and timing.

I am curious if they even bothered checking the thermostat, because that is honestly the first thing to go bad that would cause overheating. Another thing, is if you are low on coolant, you shouldn't just fill it up and that is it, you need to let the air bleed out of the system by running the car with the heat on and the radiator cap open, and slowly add coolant and wait for all the bubbles to disappear.

It almost sounds like this dealership tore apart an engine without checking other things first. If they can show you the head gasket, that would be great, it will be pretty obvious if it was damaged just but looking at it and looking for deformation along one of the edges of the cylinder and/or cracks. If those don't exist, then they are honestly full of **** and are simply trying to deny warranty. The head gasket could have been completely fine but the head studs backed out and that is what caused the "leak". But honestly, you would have noticed, white smoke out of your exhaust = water in the cylinder, so if that never happened, something is up. I just don't see any evidence to prove the dealer right.

 

[Bpods1989]

I have read a lot about the K20C1/C4 platform and as far as I am concerned, even people who use these engines as racecars say you MUST not go over 380lbft at ANY RPM on stock internals and sleeves. 400LBFT at anything bellow 3800 RPM will bend a rod and do other damage. The reason I stayed on Ktuner Stage 2 myself and usually daily drive it on the eco map with factory boost targets is because anything over ktuner stage 2 NEEDS headgaskets, head studs, and most likely, sleeve reinforcement since you are taking the head off anyway. And then if you wanna go past that with any level of reliability (350lbft+) you need rods at the minimum and if you are gonna change rods might as well change pistons, now you are getting into engine swap pricing to be honest, if you account for labor. Now if you don't wanna do any of that and still get 400lbft, they recommend going big turbo and having the turbo spool take longer and hit peak boost at 4k RPM or higher which is where the cranksaft rotation is fast enough to offset any damage that could be done to the rods.

BUT, again, this is just what I have read from people who buy this engine as a crate motor and swap it into their race cars. Its a great SUB 400hp/400lbft motor.

Based on what I learned in college (and its been a long time) I could confidently say that the biggest issue with these small turbo motors is that they are trying to make ALL of their torque from 1500RPM if not lower, which is way more stress. Imagine, the piston speed is low but you are literally FORCING the piston down against the laws of physics. This is where issues occur. So the idea that pushing 400lbft should be limited to higher RPM is valid.

Keep us updated. This seems like it could have been avoided by simply not pushing the engine that far.

NOW, you said you were running 93 octane more often than E85, so you were probably not making that much power, so I agree, the head shouldn't be warped but headgasket failure is super common on pretty much any NON RACE turbo engine in most appliance vehicles. If you dig into the history of headgasket technology, its hasn't improved in at least the last 10 years, because in the end, its just a shim between the head and the block.

I think a lot of these issues are caused by people running 0w20 oil. I’m not even on E85 either. I run Phearable Stage 3 and after just 2100 miles my oil sheared down to about a 16 weight. Those guys running longer drain intervals and using ethanol and still running 0w20 … well let’s say I wouldn’t wanna see how thin their oil is. I’ve attached a picture of my oil analysis. Wear numbers were good but the oil was thin.

 

[singular9]

I think a lot of these issues are caused by people running 0w20 oil. I’m not even on E85 either. I run Phearable Stage 3 and after just 2100 miles my oil sheared down to about a 16 weight. Those guys running longer drain intervals and using ethanol and still running 0w20 … well let’s say I wouldn’t wanna see how thin their oil is. I’ve attached a picture of my oil analysis. Wear numbers were good but the oil was thin.

View attachment 8847

I run 5w30 and change every 4000 miles. Getting tests done at black stone each time. Oil dilution and thinning is a real problem honda fan boys don't want to admit, even on the 2.0.

 

[dresm23]

I run 5w30 and change every 4000 miles. Getting tests done at black stone each time. Oil dilution and thinning is a real problem honda fan boys don't want to admit, even on the 2.0.

I changed my oil last year about 8-9 times like year every 2k-3k. It’s my paranoia and I do it with all my cars.
I don’t think my issue was the type of oil but I do feel like 0w20 is just too weak for any direct injection engine

 

[Bpods1989]

If you were watching your knock count with your K-Tuner than you would know. Just a side note I looked a Phearable stage 4 tune dyno results on a stock car and thats such a huge power increase. 340hp and 400lbs torque. compared to the stage 3 which is 280hp and 340b torque. No wonder you guys run that. Huge power difference I was shocked it was so much. So the tune adjusts on its own but you watched the knock count. I know there are a lot of guys pushing those numbers with bigger turbos and no blown head gaskets yet. Your could of had a defect or a weak spot from the factory. keep us posted sucks they are giving you crap for the flex fuel kit.

The jump from stage 3 to 4 isn’t that high. Unless you’re comparing Stage 3 (91 octane which makes under 300 wheel) to stage 4 93+e85 mix.

 

[Bpods1989]

I run 5w30 and change every 4000 miles. Getting tests done at black stone each time. Oil dilution and thinning is a real problem honda fan boys don't want to admit, even on the 2.0.

Does black stone show more mechanical shearing of the oil or fuel dilution causing the drop in viscosity? I am now running 5w30 as well.

 

[singular9]

The jump from stage 3 to 4 isn’t that high. Unless you’re comparing Stage 3 (91 octane which makes under 300 wheel) to stage 4 93+e85 mix.

The biggest jump is stage 2 to 3. I was thinking about it because it works on stock parts, but the total torque jump was huge, 100lbft on the low end. So I stuck to stage 2. Don't think the power would have damaged the engine this much though. Its probably a combination of things but I don't even think it would have been the oil. This is a heating issue, and that would be a water issue.

as for the blackstone labs reports, yes. on 0w20 I would get about 2% dilution over the winter in just 2k miles with viscocity falling from the 390 to the 350 range which is really low, and pretty bad shear strength. 5w30 is the way to go. Firstly less blow by of fuel, second much better retention of viscosity and shear strength over time. I was able to go from 2k mile oil changes to 4k miles. I did some viscosity tests of my own, and I came to the conclusion that unless you live in -10C whether, its pretty much pointless to run 0w20. 5w30 performs about the same but is stronger oil at the 0C area. Bellow -15C I wouldn't even run my car...just because no oil is great at those temperatures.

 

[Bpods1989]

The biggest jump is stage 2 to 3. I was thinking about it because it works on stock parts, but the total torque jump was huge, 100lbft on the low end. So I stuck to stage 2. Don't think the power would have damaged the engine this much though. Its probably a combination of things but I don't even think it would have been the oil. This is a heating issue, and that would be a water issue.

as for the blackstone labs reports, yes. on 0w20 I would get about 2% dilution over the winter in just 2k miles with viscocity falling from the 390 to the 350 range which is really low, and pretty bad shear strength. 5w30 is the way to go. Firstly less blow by of fuel, second much better retention of viscosity and shear strength over time. I was able to go from 2k mile oil changes to 4k miles. I did some viscosity tests of my own, and I came to the conclusion that unless you live in -10C whether, its pretty much pointless to run 0w20. 5w30 performs about the same but is stronger oil at the 0C area. Bellow -15C I wouldn't even run my car...just because no oil is great at those temperatures.

I ran the stage 2 and got the stage 3 months later. The stage 3 makes more power but down low under 3000-3500 rpm’s the stage 2 actually makes more torque. When I first got the stage 3 I was disappointed because it felt less powerful but once I got on the highway the improvements were noticeable.

I like that Phearable pushed it back a bit and got higher peak numbers. Lemon factor on YouTube dynoed the stage 2, stage 3 and stage 4 tunes.