2018 Honda Accord Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
2020 Accord Sport 2.0 6MT
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought my car new in April of 2020 with <100 miles. I installed the Mishimoto Catch Can within the first week of ownership. I was too caught up in my other car and normal grind of life to check it regularly, but after a year of ownership and 9,600 miles, I pulled the catch can to check contents. I was super surprised at how much it caught, and obviously feel bad about my negligence so I'll be checking it every 6 months or sooner. All that oil and buildup would have gone through the manifold if it hadn't been dropped out, so clearly doing a good job.


6466

6467
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
Catch cans are mostly a gimmic. All that oil and build up would be burt off by the factory pcv system. They were/are used on race cars without those emissions systems originally to prevent build up. Street cars simply burn them up into harmless vapor and expel them. I'm honestly glad you like your catch can, but I have stated numerous times how much of a waste of money I feel these things really are imo. It's sorta like having a device that removes excess vitamin C from things in your diet and collects it. Then someone says well look at all this excess stuff we have stopped from getting into your system. But really all your body does with extra vitamin C is just get rid of it without issues, no harm no fowl. Catch cans are the exact same thing for your car. Except in this case the aftermarket has convinced people this excess is bad.
 

·
Registered
2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT
Joined
·
560 Posts
Catch cans are mostly a gimmic. All that oil and build up would be burt off by the factory pcv system. They were/are used on race cars without those emissions systems originally to prevent build up. Street cars simply burn them up into harmless vapor and expel them. I'm honestly glad you like your catch can, but I have stated numerous times how much of a waste of money I feel these things really are imo. It's sorta like having a device that removes excess vitamin C from things in your diet and collects it. Then someone says well look at all this excess stuff we have stopped from getting into your system. But really all your body does with extra vitamin C is just get rid of it without issues, no harm no fowl. Catch cans are the exact same thing for your car. Except in this case the aftermarket has convinced people this excess is bad.
I don't think I disagree with you. I definitely understand your reasoning and logic behind your thoughts on the cans. If you're running higher than stock boost I don't think its a bad idea. I run the Ktuner stage 2 tune on a daily basis, don't always push it, but the idea of keeping some of the excess out doesn't seem harmful to me. I also wouldn't spend a ton of money on an elaborate high dollar set up for one on a street car. Maybe it's just a peace of mind thing in the end.
 

·
Registered
2020 Accord Sport 2.0 6MT
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Catch cans are mostly a gimmic. All that oil and build up would be burt off by the factory pcv system. They were/are used on race cars without those emissions systems originally to prevent build up. Street cars simply burn them up into harmless vapor and expel them. I'm honestly glad you like your catch can, but I have stated numerous times how much of a waste of money I feel these things really are imo. It's sorta like having a device that removes excess vitamin C from things in your diet and collects it. Then someone says well look at all this excess stuff we have stopped from getting into your system. But really all your body does with extra vitamin C is just get rid of it without issues, no harm no fowl. Catch cans are the exact same thing for your car. Except in this case the aftermarket has convinced people this excess is bad.
Okay, I'll keep a level head and just simply state the facts. If your personal opinion was true, then why do so many different engine platforms with turbocharged direct injection setups need a walnut blast after 60k miles (BMW as the most prominent, but even Mazdas sky-active and others are showing the same impacts).

It's extremely well documented that direct injection engines have substantially higher buildup rates of deposits on the valves versus port injection because the fuel doesn't wash over the valves in direct injection. There's so many different sources to quote, whether magazines, forums, youtube vids, etc. Several factory platforms have air/oil separators (also known as a knock out or catch can) as part of their emissions systems specifically because of this.
 

·
Registered
2018 Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT
Joined
·
560 Posts
GDI certainly leads to carbon build up issues but the catch can won't entire stop that. I don't think you believe that it will but it certainly aids in protection against it. Even port injection systems see carbon build up on valves so it's going to always be an issue so long as we're burning gasoline and oil in ICEs. Some manufacturers will flat out deny an issue and some will be more proactive about it. I think a catch can is being proactive but I don't think not having one will be detrimental in most cases. A catch can gets my vote if you're running higher than normal boost levels. Just have to put your own price on peace of mind at that point. My price is a decent universal fit to save some money and rig it up myself over a couple hundred or more for a model specific or high end set up lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
Okay, I'll keep a level head and just simply state the facts. If your personal opinion was true, then why do so many different engine platforms with turbocharged direct injection setups need a walnut blast after 60k miles (BMW as the most prominent, but even Mazdas sky-active and others are showing the same impacts).

It's extremely well documented that direct injection engines have substantially higher buildup rates of deposits on the valves versus port injection because the fuel doesn't wash over the valves in direct injection. There's so many different sources to quote, whether magazines, forums, youtube vids, etc. Several factory platforms have air/oil separators (also known as a knock out or catch can) as part of their emissions systems specifically because of this.
And a catch can won't stop carbon build up at all. You obviously know how to quote how direct injection works but you don't understand it. Because the fuel is being injected directly into the cylinder the valves no longer get hot enough to burn the excess carbon off. The oil also comes from oil leaking past the seals which is normal operation. You can't stop that, it's a byproduct of the di process. It's not a personal opinion. It's an observation of seeing these catch cans run on modified VWs for years and still having to scrape the valves. So 12 years of personal experience is leading to that opinion, take it for what it's worth. These engines have been running factory air oil separators for decades before direct injection. As I stated it's called the pcv system or positive crankcase ventilation system.

Why wouldn't you keep a level head. Anytime someone poses a question to you you lose your cool? I started with I'm glad your enjoying your catch can. My opinion should have no basis on your mood or enjoyment of the product.
 

·
Registered
2020 Accord Sport 2.0 6MT
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
And a catch can won't stop carbon build up at all. You obviously know how to quote how direct injection works but you don't understand it. Because the fuel is being injected directly into the cylinder the valves no longer get hot enough to burn the excess carbon off. The oil also comes from oil leaking past the seals which is normal operation. You can't stop that, it's a byproduct of the di process. It's not a personal opinion. It's an observation of seeing these catch cans run on modified VWs for years and still having to scrape the valves. So 12 years of personal experience is leading to that opinion, take it for what it's worth. These engines have been running factory air oil separators for decades before direct injection. As I stated it's called the pcv system or positive crankcase ventilation system.

Why wouldn't you keep a level head. Anytime someone poses a question to you you lose your cool? I started with I'm glad your enjoying your catch can. My opinion should have no basis on your mood or enjoyment of the product.
You came out of the gate swinging and specifically stated they're a gimmick which is far from reality. They absolutely have purpose on any DI car or on any modified forced induction system. Naturally carbon will still build up over time, but anything caught in the knock outs will not have a chance to build up on the valves or seats. Plus, any liquids caught out is going to have a higher concentration of other contaminants such as fuel. Blackstone tests have confirmed that much as well. Are they a requirement to make sure the car runs out 100k miles or long...of course not. Will a strong majority of cars with catch cans be running more efficiently at the 100k mile mark versus those that don't...all the various sources I mentioned before say yes. It's not a solution because of the inherent design nature of the DI vs PI which you noted, but it's a couple hundred bucks that will absolutely make a difference in the long run.

It's frustrating to see someone just claim so strongly that they have no purpose and are "a waste of money in imo". Like a lot of people, I've spent several years as a mechanic and continue on as a enthusiast and have seen the positive impacts some devices can have. You make it out like it's some kind of ebay cigarette lighter plug-in to boost your power by 20% and fuel economy by 50%. I'm saying that's short sighted to discourage people from using something proven to clean up blow-by and delay the need (not eliminate the need) for services like walnut blasting or rebuilds.

Anyways, that's all for me. Happy with the results I've had after less than 10k miles and will continue to use them on my DI cars in the future, assuming they don't have them to start with.
 

·
Registered
2020 Accord Sport 2.0 6MT
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·

·
Administrator
Joined
·
2,844 Posts
Got a link? I might be interested!











haha j/k :D
lolol right? Turns out the latest and greatest is an OBD plug attachment offering the same benefits.
Classic.
LMAO!!!!
 

·
Registered
Lunar Silver 2019 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T 10AT
Joined
·
341 Posts
This was discussed on the 10th Accord group on Facebook. This is directly quoted from Dereck Robinson from IMW. He stated Catch Cans are pointless on our cars. Dereck definitely knows these motors and our platform. So use your $200 towards another mod. VegasHybrid was correct in his statement.

“The factory PCV system is very well designed, and adding an external catch can inline on the system does nothing more than add more volume to condense vapors to. The vast majority of what people pour out of those cans is water.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vegashybrid

·
Registered
Lunar Silver 2019 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T 10AT
Joined
·
341 Posts
If you don’t know who Dereck is, just look at the fastest cars on this list. He tuned them.
6541
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
You came out of the gate swinging and specifically stated they're a gimmick which is far from reality. They absolutely have purpose on any DI car or on any modified forced induction system. Naturally carbon will still build up over time, but anything caught in the knock outs will not have a chance to build up on the valves or seats. Plus, any liquids caught out is going to have a higher concentration of other contaminants such as fuel. Blackstone tests have confirmed that much as well. Are they a requirement to make sure the car runs out 100k miles or long...of course not. Will a strong majority of cars with catch cans be running more efficiently at the 100k mile mark versus those that don't...all the various sources I mentioned before say yes. It's not a solution because of the inherent design nature of the DI vs PI which you noted, but it's a couple hundred bucks that will absolutely make a difference in the long run.

It's frustrating to see someone just claim so strongly that they have no purpose and are "a waste of money in imo". Like a lot of people, I've spent several years as a mechanic and continue on as a enthusiast and have seen the positive impacts some devices can have. You make it out like it's some kind of ebay cigarette lighter plug-in to boost your power by 20% and fuel economy by 50%. I'm saying that's short sighted to discourage people from using something proven to clean up blow-by and delay the need (not eliminate the need) for services like walnut blasting or rebuilds.

Anyways, that's all for me. Happy with the results I've had after less than 10k miles and will continue to use them on my DI cars in the future, assuming they don't have them to start with.
I dont come out swinging i just dont sugar coat things and am very straight forward. You said it perfectly your not the only one whos done work as a mechanic here. You obviously overlooked the part where stating I have seen them run for years and still had to scrape the valves. Maybe I should clarify that I installed some of these and they did nothing for having to scrape the valves. I monitored dozens over the past 12 years or so, they are worthless(all on di cars). As stated, now by someone else as well, the factory pcv is more than capable of eliminating this. What your doing is bypassing a system that a company spent millions on, that functions perfectly fine btw, for added complexity and problems. In colder climates they start collecting excess vapor and water and fill very quickly. The lines can also freeze if not emptied regularly, causing your vehicle not to start. Take the intercooler hose of any VW Audi and yeah you get some oil in it, I have never seen one grenade from excess sludge, ever. Bad cam from the high pressure fuels pump, skipped tooth on the timing chain, all day long. Sludge, no. Countless vehicles with millions of combined miles and nothing to suggest a catch can does anything,( many heavily modified and some not), and they dont run any better than their counterparts without. The guys at the shop laugh at them. I make it out to be what it is a gimmick, just like your cig lighter. People think their engine will stay clean by adding this magic can is just as laughable. You know what frustrates me? When people are so close minded they arent open to other ideas and defend their position without merit or proof. Even when others provide it. The fact that a mechanic as you claim to be, give into these and advertises it to others without using the product to see if it works as intended over many year well.......
Yes its a gimmick so what, there are many gadgets that are gimmicks that are awesome. I own tons, I love pointless gadgets that are a waste of money. Thats why I said glad your enjoying it, and my opinions should not change that. Just dont expect to have clean valves/engine because of it. Now i feel like a broken record but the cleanest valves came from the cars running water meth kits. But even car running that and catch can still need their valve cleaned.
 

·
Registered
2020 Accord Sport 2.0 6MT
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This was discussed on the 10th Accord group on Facebook. This is directly quoted from Dereck Robinson from IMW. He stated Catch Cans are pointless on our cars. Dereck definitely knows these motors and our platform. So use your $200 towards another mod. VegasHybrid was correct in his statement.

“The factory PCV system is very well designed, and adding an external catch can inline on the system does nothing more than add more volume to condense vapors to. The vast majority of what people pour out of those cans is water.”
Definitely know who Dereck is and follow a couple of the others on that leaderboard. What I can say is that what I poured out was definitely not 'mostly water'. The surface tension and consistency was far more similar to what came out during the oil change. But hey, he's an expert so that's fine. Is it necessary? No, probably not. Honda wouldn't have sent it out of the factory without one if it wouldn't hold up to Honda's longevity requirements. Does it stop additional buildup in the manifold and on the valves? I'd bet any day that on a like-for-like comparison between two motors with similar driving habits that the addition of the catch-can would be beneficial. My experiences from owning and working on Honda H, K and F series motors (mostly forced induction), and working on B series plus other platforms, have shown catch cans to function as advertised and keep dryer air cycling back through the motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Words are just word without evidence. Someone show me pictures of accord intake valves at, lets say, 10k mile increments. THAT is really the only way to prove your points, evidence.

With that said head over to youtube and go to The Humble Mechanics channel where he actually did this, showed before and after pictures of a car fitted with an oil catch can. Fact is that ever since Di became the defacto method for fuel delivery there have been issues with carbon buildup on the backs of intake valves for EVERY SINGLE Di ENGINE EVER MADE. WIll it prevent the engines from running, no. Will it cause catastrophic engine failure, probably not. What has been well documented is that:

1. Di engines have excess carbon buildup
2. Over time the probability of negative impact does increase.
3. While a catch can does not eliminate 100% of blow-by being ingested evidence is there that it has more of a positive impact than negative
4. Catch cans are added maintenance unless you have one that can be tapped to the oil pan allowing the oil to go back to base.

In conclusion unless you are shoeing evidence just shut up!!!!

Pix or it never happened
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top