[HashtagEww]

Hey Everyone!

I am looking into tuning my 2.0T either through a flash tune from the Hondata FlashPro or a piggyback tune from the BMS JB4. From everything I've seen online the JB4 is looking like a very solid option considering you retain your warranty, it costs $300 less than the FlashPro (money isn't a problem but saving $300 is always nice), and I see that BMS is very helpful when it comes to trouble shooting. On the other hand though Hondata is tried and true and a lot of Hondata users are successfully going long term with the FlashPro with little to no problems and I have a buddy who works at a Honda dealer and he claims that if the ECU is returned to stock they can't see it was tuned. When searching online I can't find anyone who has thrown a 2.0T JB4 on a dyno but according to the logs it looks like it does give as much power or toque as the FlashPro.

Does anyone have any suggestions on which path I should choose?

 

[LDB415]

Saving $300 is never a bad thing. And day in, day out will you really notice whatever difference there may be?

 

[Fired00d]

Take a look at this thread - 2018 Honda Accord 2.0t JB4 Install... member has installed the JB4.

 

[HashtagEww]

Saving $300 is never a bad thing. And day in, day out will you really notice whatever difference there may be?

I don't know if I will notice a difference but just looking at the numbers the JB4's highest "safe" map is +5 PSI and I read somewhere that the Stage 1 Hondata is +6 PSI (I'd run Stage 2 probably though), so there will definitely be a difference but I don't know if its that big of a difference.

 

[HashtagEww]

Take a look at this thread - 2018 Honda Accord 2.0t JB4 Install... member has installed the JB4.

I saw this guy on the N54tech forum and his YT vids and it looks like the JB4 is really nice. I just don't know if I should go for it or not, especially compared to the FlashPro which will be faster.

 

[EngTech1]

Dyno Numbers aren't Much , compared to ability to Remove or Switch Up or Down between Modes

Speed Limiter Removal , Soft Rev Limiter ~ Traction Control ~


MPG - Fuel Type required , Nor the Fact - might have to Run 93 all the Time vs 91 Octane - whether or Not do to local Hot weather
You must Add Inter-cooler - certainly that won't be Added or Deleted ~ very Fast . .



If You feel You - OK with Adding a Performance Clutch , or wish to do Logging , there so much more then Numbers !

 

[Terry]

It all comes down to your needs but the JB4 offers similar power gains, a nice robust app with full logging, a variety of maps built in, and the biggest difference is you don't need to reflash your ECU to run it. Which means unlike flash tuning it can always be removed without a trace down the road.

 

[Fired00d]

It all comes down to your needs but the JB4 offers similar power gains, a nice robust app with full logging, a variety of maps built in, and the biggest difference is you don't need to reflash your ECU to run it. Which means unlike flash tuning it can always be removed without a trace down the road.

Not sure and very skeptical about w/o leaving a trace down the road. Cars of today w/all the technology/computers logging data any parameter outside of OEM/EPA settings can and will be logged... IE: RPM limits, Air/Fuel settings, etc., etc. If any of these items for whatever reason exceed OEM/EPA settings there will be traces/dates of when they were exceeded. If for any reason warranty is a concern user beware of exceeding those limits with any type of device that will defeat them. JMHO

 

[Terry]

Not sure and very skeptical about w/o leaving a trace down the road. Cars of today w/all the technology/computers logging data any parameter outside of OEM/EPA settings can and will be logged... IE: RPM limits, Air/Fuel settings, etc., etc. If any of these items for whatever reason exceed OEM/EPA settings there will be traces/dates of when they were exceeded. If for any reason warranty is a concern user beware of exceeding those limits with any type of device that will defeat them. JMHO

Our position is always that customers should pay for any damage they cause operating their vehicle in excess of the factory specifications. But that said, for the JB4 to work properly the ECU and other vehicle modules can't be aware of the true power/torque levels. With a JB4 boost, timing, knock count, AFR, fuel trims, etc, are all kept within factory plausible levels. With flash tuning on the other hand everything is run in non-factory plausible levels, not to mention checksums, gateway requests to reflash, flash counters, etc, etc. So the JB4 provides a much higher level of diagnostic invisibility.

 

[Fired00d]

Our position is always that customers should pay for any damage they cause operating their vehicle in excess of the factory specifications. But that said, for the JB4 to work properly the ECU and other vehicle modules can't be aware of the true power/torque levels. With a JB4 boost, timing, knock count, AFR, fuel trims, etc, are all kept within factory plausible levels. With flash tuning on the other hand everything is run in non-factory plausible levels, not to mention checksums, gateway requests to reflash, flash counters, etc, etc. So the JB4 provides a much higher level of diagnostic invisibility.

We will agree to disagree.

It is still my opinion (also coming from reliable sources) that piggy back or flash systems that defeat factory settings will leave "crumbs" so to speak of those systems being defeated. I personally would not use any of them if I were concerned about warranty and your statement stating "customers should pay for any damage they cause operating their vehicle in excess of factory specifications" is the exact reason that most performance device's state for "race use only" and no warranty for engine/powertrain failures.

Now, with that said I'm not against any of these devices however often times people aren't aware of (and at times told) they can return to factory tune (reflashed) or devices removed, and warranty will be intact only to find out their has been data logged outside of factory settings that will void their warranty.

 

[Nel205]

Not sure and very skeptical about w/o leaving a trace down the road. Cars of today w/all the technology/computers logging data any parameter outside of OEM/EPA settings can and will be logged... IE: RPM limits, Air/Fuel settings, etc., etc. If any of these items for whatever reason exceed OEM/EPA settings there will be traces/dates of when they were exceeded. If for any reason warranty is a concern user beware of exceeding those limits with any type of device that will defeat them. JMHO

As long as it stays below factory settings. Such as RMP or while the JB4 was learning. Doesn't matter about the tune it matters what actual internal parts was doing such as factory example red line is 6 1/2 thousand RPM's if hypothetically one time the RPM's went to 7,200 RPM's that would be recorded by the computer same as a module code that was more CL code even though the repair may be done. That code same as out of factory spec that went beyond would be recorded in permanent records with in the ECU. As far them knowing you had any tuner hooked it. Then no, the vehicles ECU would only record the beyond limit account. They see several of them in the history then they would know or if you wiped the vehicles history completely they would also see that because it went beyond first starting date. Even if you replace the ECU there would be have to be a factory record at the dealerships conputer system. I know this for %100 fact everything I just name. I do not have a dog in this fight one way or another. What I don't like is for any company to not mention these facts on purpose. That makes me have distrust in a company. A lie is lie weather you add something or you leave it out in purpose IS DAMN LIE PERIOD. I'd the product is good I'd do mine research into it thoroughly and would trust the information from the produced product or any of their affiliates. I'm retire from Honda Manufacturing of North America

 

[Nel205]

As long as it stays below factory settings. Such as RMP or while the JB4 was learning. Doesn't matter about the tune it matters what actual internal parts was doing such as factory example red line is 6 1/2 thousand RPM's if hypothetically one time the RPM's went to 7,200 RPM's that would be recorded by the computer same as a module code that was more CL code even though the repair may be done. That code same as out of factory spec that went beyond would be recorded in permanent records with in the ECU. As far them knowing you had any tuner hooked it. Then no, the vehicles ECU would only record the beyond limit account. They see several of them in the history then they would know or if you wiped the vehicles history completely they would also see that because it went beyond first starting date. Even if you replace the ECU there would be have to be a factory record at the dealerships conputer system. I know this for %100 fact everything I just name. I do not have a dog in this fight one way or another. What I don't like is for any company to not mention these facts on purpose. That makes me have distrust in a company. A lie is lie weather you add something or you leave it out in purpose IS DAMN LIE PERIOD. I'd the product is good I'd do mine research into it thoroughly and would trust the information from the produced product or any of their affiliates. I'm retire from Honda Manufacturing of North America

So for some misspelling Im on a phone and probably typing too fast. Again verify your own information. Assume their embellishing things. Because I've built 2 race care completely by myself every nut and bolt. I've never seen any replacement of a ECU or freaking tune naturally aspirated that took any vehicle beyond 25 hp with added some form of boost. An engine is simply an air pump it is not a motor that's a misused term a motor is electric a fossil fuel burning is a engine

 

[Nel205]

So for some misspelling Im on a phone and probably typing too fast. Again verify your own information. Assume their embellishing things. Because I've built 2 race care completely by myself every nut and bolt. I've never seen any replacement of a ECU or freaking tune naturally aspirated that took any vehicle beyond 25 hp with added some form of boost. An engine is simply an air pump it is not a motor that's a misused term a motor is electric a fossil fuel burning is a engine

AGAIN TO HAVE GAINS WHAT THEIR CLAIMING YOU MUST HA E SOME FORM OF F BOOST PERIOD

 

[Nel205]

Not sure and very skeptical about w/o leaving a trace down the road. Cars of today w/all the technology/computers logging data any parameter outside of OEM/EPA settings can and will be logged... IE: RPM limits, Air/Fuel settings, etc., etc. If any of these items for whatever reason exceed OEM/EPA settings there will be traces/dates of when they were exceeded. If for any reason warranty is a concern user beware of exceeding those limits with any type of device that will defeat them. JMHO

The information sent out by the JB4 can remain undectable the information returning to the ECU is completely different it comes directly from internal parts that's monitored by sensors the JB4 can not block or wash the information coming back from the sensors it only controls the outgoing information to the sensors telling them what to do NOT the recorded information what actually happened with the internal parts of that engine

 

[Jozhfy]

We will agree to disagree.

It is still my opinion (also coming from reliable sources) that piggy back or flash systems that defeat factory settings will leave "crumbs" so to speak of those systems being defeated. I personally would not use any of them if I were concerned about warranty and your statement stating "customers should pay for any damage they cause operating their vehicle in excess of factory specifications" is the exact reason that most performance device's state for "race use only" and no warranty for engine/powertrain failures.

Now, with that said I'm not against any of these devices however often times people aren't aware of (and at times told) they can return to factory tune (reflashed) or devices removed, and warranty will be intact only to find out their has been data logged outside of factory settings that will void their warranty.

bro you literally just replied with an opinion to the guy who practially made JB4

 

[Fired00d]

bro you literally just replied with an opinion to the guy who practially made JB4

I sure did.... and I knew it.